Dear Mama: The Saga of Afeni and Tupac Shakur (Part 5)
He was a kid from the Bay Area with a difficult relationship with his mother. And while most kids could relate to that kind of situation, only one kid was the multitalented and charismatic son of Afeni Shakur, a controversial leader in the Black Panther Party. Episode 5 of the documentary series “Dear Mama: The Saga of Afeni and Tupac Shakur” explores Tupac's last night on Earth, his murder and its aftermath, the passing of Afeni, and his legacy.
We'll answer the question: What is Tupac's legacy?
Dear Mama on IMDb
Where to Watch: Dear Mama on FX/Hulu
Credits
Hip Hop Movie Club is produced by your HHMC's: Boogie, JB and DynoWright! Theme music by Boogie.
Hit us up at hiphopmovieclub@gmail.com or on TikTok, Facebook, Twitter and Instagram @hiphopmovieclub. You can also check us out at hiphopmovieclub.com.
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Shout out to you listeners. Thanks for tuning in.
And remember: Don't hate, navigate.
Transcript
00;00;00;02 - 00;00;31;02
DynoWright
He was a kid from the Bay Area with a difficult relationship with his mother. And while most kids can relate to that kind of situation, only one kid was the multitalented and charismatic son of Afeni Shakur, a controversial leader in the Black Panther Party. Episode five of the documentary series Dear Mama The Saga of Afeni and Tupac Shakur explores Tupac's last night on Earth, his murder and its aftermath, the passing of Afeni and his legacy.
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Rapper
Bring it! C’mon!
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DynoWright
Welcome Hip-Hop Movie Club. This is a show for Gen-X hip hop fans who want to relive the glory days and reconsider classic and modern hip hop films. But current day perspective, fresh Together, will explore some of the larger societal issues raised in these films. If you've seen today's movie before, learn some fascinating trivia you might have missed. If you haven't seen today's movie before, then we'll help you decide whether this film is worth your time.
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DynoWright
Either way, if you're a smarter hip hop fan by the end of this episode. The next 30 minutes or so, you get all this and more.
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DynoWright
p concert was Cypress Hill in:
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JB
I'm JB eighties and nineties Nostalgia Junkie, longtime hip hop fan, and I recently met Professor Griff, the former leader of the S1 WS security crew for Public Enemy.
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Boogie
I'm Boogie, a deejay, longtime hip hop fan, and I recently saw Sugarhill Gang and Kurtis Blow in two separate concerts. I saw Sugarhill Gang, on July 20th, I saw KURTIS Blow on August 10th.
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DynoWright
This episode will answer the question What is Tupac's legacy?
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:00;01;53;17 - 00;01;57;05
Rapper
Bring it! C’mon!
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:00;01;57;08 - 00;02;02;04
Rapper
One, one, one, one
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JB
st,:
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JB
What did you learn about Tupac from this episode that you didn't know prior to watching it?
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Boogie
Yeah, I think a lot of this this episode was tunes that I had heard at some point. But one thing that I didn't realize was that while he was hospitalized in Las Vegas, that Jesse Jackson was there on site with his mom consoling her and making sure that the family was okay and that they were there was Snoop Dogg where I was.
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Boogie
He spoke to both of them and was telling about how, you know, he was he was feeling a little uneasy because his last conversations were party and go, you know, was more amicable. So he wasn't even sure if he should be there or how he would react to being there. And Afeni pulled him aside and gave him a nice pep talk and let him tell them to go in there and speak to them in speechmaking normally would in that, you know, he would hear them.
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Boogie
So but that was just that whole scenario just kind of caught me off guard. I said, wait a minute, Jesse Jackson. Yeah.
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JB
Yeah. He was part of the team of people like holding vigil, like in his last week as he was trying to hang on to life. Donna Wright, anything that you learned in this episode? Yeah.
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DynoWright
Also, the Jesse Jackson part. I don't remember that at all. It's very interesting. Like, how did he know? Like this? Was it I mean, pretty serious. Well, the one thing that was revealed that I didn't really know about was apparently Tupac had dove over Shug to try to protect him during the shooting itself. And so I thought, wow, that's, you know, the wherewithal to do that as you've been shot is pretty amazing.
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DynoWright
I guess it's a testament to his love for.
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JB
Humanity.
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DynoWright
That he would be protecting Suge.
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JB
Yeah, I learned a few things as well. I didn't realize that Tupac was engaged at the time of his death. Had fiancee Kidada, who, if you guys didn't, knows. Quincy Jones daughter, sister of Rashida Jones. I didn't realize really how I knew there was. We always joke about how many albums came out posthumously, but they said he left behind 400 songs.
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JB
Like ten more albums came out after he died. And and we can get into it. But like, he didn't own the Masters to his recordings. And then, like, Afeni had sued Death Row Records to get those. And I didn't realize that. I didn't realize how much of an impact Tupac and Eminem's life. Eminem played like a prominent role in this episode, where he was really devastated when Tupac died.
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JB
Tupac had given him the courage to kind of come out of his shell and just express his emotions because no one had really expressed themselves with such grace and such power and strength like Tupac did. And it was amazing to see the footage of like, I actually paused as I'm watching it. I paused the screen. It was a handwritten letter that, yeah, Marshall Mathers, a.k.a. Eminem, had written to Afeni and I post pause and read it, saying like You are queen in every sense of the word.
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JB
Your son is meant more than you'll ever know. I was, like, balled up with emotion and like, he gave me that courage to step out and just say, like, Hey, this is who I am. You know, if you don't like I am F-you, this is who I am. Like, I'll express myself. And he even drew a hand drawn picture of Tupac saying, Hey, I used to draw a lot and here's a picture that you might enjoy of Tupac.
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JB
So I was like, Wow, that's really, really special. I went there.
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Boogie
To piggyback on your state and saw him, and then it was kind of funny. He was we asked him, say, So where were you at? Like, where were you at in your career? When With Tupac? Because I was nowhere. I was nowhere. Like.
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DynoWright
That was really just.
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Boogie
He was just it was cooking in a restaurant when he got the news and he somehow was saying how devastating he was, he said I was the first rapper. That first like artist that made him cry. I was like, Wow. That was kind of deep. And he said, you know, they were about the same. They were about the same age.
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Boogie
And yeah, he kind of related to that. And yeah, I didn't realize that he had such a profound impact on his career and in getting him to, like I said, give him the courage to, to be himself and just kind of step out there. And I didn't realize that at all.
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JB
And if you flash forward later in the episode where there Afeni fighting kind of gets his recordings back within the family, Eminem said that she gave him all a cappella recordings that he had that he can do what he wants, just like preserve his his memory and his artistic style. So that was really cool.
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Boogie
Yeah, that's and then just kind of shows the type of relationship that developed between the two of them. Because to just give away Tupac's a capella is like this. That's priceless. He's going to go record on more of them. Yeah, yeah, it's priceless. You just gave it to him. But I mean, let's see. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.
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DynoWright
That's a lot of respect.
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Boogie
Absolute. Ali Yeah.
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JB
Anything in this episode surprising other than kind of some of the things that we spoke about?
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Boogie
Yeah, I think one thing that kind of stuck out to me because kind of I mean, I kind of had an idea, I mean, kind of hinted at it a little bit in previous episodes when you was talking about how Tupac was setting himself up to start his own label. He wanted to start his own theater company, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
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Boogie
And in the back of my head, I'm thinking like, okay, there's no way you're going to be able to set all of this up, still tied to death row. And then, you know, we get to this episode and you're talking about he wasn't scared of sugar at all. Like he wasn't scared one bit. It's a he's on a on a phone just like furious, like foaming at the mouth, you know, yelling about how he was going to be little death row up.
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Boogie
If he couldn't get they would release him and give him his music. And I was like, wow, the I don't I've never heard either. It's like, wow. But it is not surprising, though. But I just never heard that aspect of it.
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JB
Yeah. He come to find out. Like after Tupac died, Afeni didn't found out that he didn't even own his own home in L.A. or his masters. So she had a lot of work to do. She ended up moving out to a houseboat in Sausalito, California. This was an interesting tidbit that she said is where like right across from where Otis Redding record is sitting on the dock of the bay.
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JB
So that was kind of interesting. Yeah.
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Boogie
But she put her arm in the war.
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JB
Tupac. I mean, he was so beloved that they had to, like, postpone the funeral service, a memorial service, because there wasn't a venue that could hold the amount of people that were expected to come there. So they, um, having a small private ceremony on Malibu Beach. Yeah. In shock. G The late Chuck G, who this episode was kind of dedicated to at the end, if you saw from Digital Underground, he spoke fondly of the service in the ceremony.
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Boogie
Yeah. One thing that touched me about which I actually was, was speaking and he was just talking about after Tupac was going to speak about that calmness that came, you just said it was just it was like a calmness because there was no more pain that Tupac because his food's a lot of pain throughout his life. And that's kind of Washington to a person he was because he was always trying to go against the grain, just trying to get his point across.
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Boogie
But once he was going, he's like there was a calmness because they knew that that his soul was at risk because he was no longer in pain. And I was it was very touching where he spoke, the way he spoke about that feeling, you know, that that touched me. I was warmed up a little bit. I was.
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DynoWright
But they had a clip when he was a teenager. It was really profound about his outlook on death and what happens after. And if you remember, he says that at worst, it's just quiet and that's really great. And then at best, you're an angel or is some kind of spirit that that lives on and there's not a reason to be sad for that, for that person that that died, because at worst, they just have peace and quiet.
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DynoWright
Something about being sad for the crabs left in the bucket that was like, Yeah, but the whole thing was very profound. I thought, it's amazing for someone. I think he was 19 at the age of this clip, to be that world wise. You know, he's by that time he's seen a lot more than most. And to have that kind of perspective at that age was really terrific.
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DynoWright
Really cool clip to include at the end in this last episode.
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JB
Yeah, I mean, in a lot of the lyrics of his songs, he kind of like refers to death. I mean, the one song that they played towards the beginning to Live and Die in L.A. was so crazy. Like, you know, both him and then Biggie, the parallels, you know, his album's ready to die and it's like these to deal with these topics, and it's almost like it's prophetic sounding, sadly prophetic that these guys flew too close to the sun and, you know, flamed out.
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JB
Yeah, because of the turbulence in their lives. Yeah. Yeah. And we were reminded again of Jasmine Guy from a different world fame like she was such a close friend of Tupac that if you remember, he recovered at her home when he had been shot in New York. And she I didn't realize that she had written the book on a Phenix life.
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JB
Yeah. So she actually authored that book?
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DynoWright
Mm hmm.
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JB
People that don't know maybe that maybe not have seen this series would not know that that was. Well, the Mike Tyson footage. I mean, I mean, Mike Tyson will always be tied with Tupac because he was shot literally like an hour or so after the fight, Seldon fight. And I remember just seeing like grainy footage, but they kind of slowed it down and showed right after the literally right after the fight, you know, Tyson wins and he embraces with Tupac, Tupac's all fired up and charged up because there's so much like adrenaline running through him.
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JB
And what it says is that Orlando Anderson, who was a Crips gang member, was pointed out who had stolen a medallion from someone else in death row. And Tupac was just like on the attack. He attacked him and there was a melee from the reports he had gotten in that brawl. And then they said he went upstairs, changed into a jersey and came back down.
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JB
And then a shooting occurred not long after that. Yeah, but it was interesting to see that again and sad at the same time.
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Boogie
Yeah. One thing that struck out about me, about that whole situation to at that point, at that point in his life, he was known for wearing a bulletproof vest and he said they should kind of talk him out of wearing it. The more management you want us, you don't need that, you know. So he didn't have a vest on.
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Boogie
And then, you know, once he went upstairs and changed and put the jersey on the stood and put a vest on and, you know, he ended up getting shot for it was like four shots to the chest. So, I mean, a vest might have kept him around, you know, this crazy.
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JB
If you're a hip hop fan, you know, there's all types of theories on conspiracy theories, but nothing was ever proven to t I mean, they don't know if that Orlando Anderson was the one that shot him or not, like after the fact or one of his other Crips gang members. I mean, obviously, with the East Coast, West Coast feud, if you look it up, you know, there is reports that Puffy Combs and Biggie had like $1,000,000 bounty on his head.
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JB
That was a rumor out there. There was no evidence. And I remember Biggie had an alibi that he was like working in the studio trying to disprove that. So this is all types of conspiracy theories and we won't speculate. But, you know, they showed the footage from what was seen. Mike Tyson, such a character. I mean, he talked about when he was raising pigeons as a kid and he was he was so little, he would get picked on and and he would get kind of attacked and they would attack the pigeons.
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JB
And he just beat up some guy one time. And then he was applauded and he just fell in love with with violence. Oh, wow, I can beat people up and things like that. Change his life.
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DynoWright
Yeah.
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JB
He's like, I was, like, aroused from that. And it's kind of nuts. That's nuts.
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Boogie
So visible. His words.
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JB
Yeah.
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DynoWright
Yeah. There's nothing subtle about Mike Tyson ever.
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Boogie
Yeah, Or better.
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DynoWright
f them that didn't make it to:
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DynoWright
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Especially Mike Tyson. He'd been through so much and he's, you know, some of his own doing is one thing that surprised me was that that they they were as close as they were. I didn't really think about that. But yeah, they were sort of kindred spirits in a way.
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Boogie
Yeah.
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JB
Yeah. They were lightning rod personalities. Yeah. Larger, larger than life.
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DynoWright
Yeah.
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Boogie
And even in that, even in their similarities, Mike still say that Tupac was nothing like him. You know, he said I'm, I'm, I thrive in this. You put me in a prison, we're thriving and I'm thriving. This is it easy to fuck? It's not like, yeah, he's not that kind of a person. He's not that kind of a person, you know, from the outside.
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Boogie
Exactly. Rare, but they're very similar. Who have, you know, at one point was considered the most dangerous man in planet Mike Tyson knocking people out in the first round. Yeah, he was nothing like me. He was. He was a citizen. He was a sweetheart, basically.
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DynoWright
Yeah, He was a lover, not a fighter. Yeah.
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Boogie
You know.
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JB
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in:
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JB
he was the first solo rapper to be inducted, and he was on his first year of eligibility, first ballot Hall of Famer, so to speak. But Snoop's words were like really touching and it talks about like the complexity of that, the dichotomy of Tupac's character. So I'll read the quote he mentioned. Snoop Dogg said while many remember him now as some kind of thug doubt superhero, Tupac knew he was only human and he represented through his music like no one before.
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JB
It's a fact that he never shied away from. He wore it like a badge of honor with an unapologetic rawness. Embrace those contradictions that prove it. We just a character out of someone else's storybook to be human is to be many things at once strong and vulnerable, hard headed and intellectual, courageous, and a freed, loving and vengeful revolutionary.
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JB
Oh, yeah. Don't get it. F the gangster. I was like, Man, that was a really like he painted that picture really nicely.
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DynoWright
Yeah.
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JB
Yeah.
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Boogie
And I love how Snoop gave the scenario about He said they were I forgot where he said they were, but he was with a bunch of death row affiliation, friends or whatever hanging out in the city. Was arguing with his girlfriend and was then girlfriend now is everybody was missing it, man. Forget about her, man. Maybe Snoop Dogg can get somebody else.
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Boogie
And he said everybody was saying it in the park comes over to say, man, forget what they're talking about. So she loves you and I know that you love her. You need to make her. Your wife is Snoop Dogg. We're still together to this day.
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DynoWright
They're still together? Yeah.
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Boogie
Going against the grain.
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JB
And I thought the Hughes brothers did a great job with this whole series.
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DynoWright
Absolutely.
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JB
I love once again, they brought back that song, Vincent about Vincent Van Gogh by Don McLean, and they played that while the coroner arrived. And then the immediate aftermath of Tupac being pronounced dead. And I was like, That was just nicely done. Because, yeah, you know, it's a song that Tupac had chosen for his one class and he had written the lyrics down and it had meaning to him.
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DynoWright
until the end and she died in:
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DynoWright
And I go through that too. And that was I don't really know much about that. At part, like I thought she might still have been alive, but now she had passed of a heart attack that.
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JB
idn't realize she had died in:
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JB
She's like, I only had one sister and one nephew, and boy, did I hit the jackpot. The sad thing is, while there was a calmness with Tupac, she said mentioned Glow said that her sister Afeni, never had peace of mind, that she never like. Yeah, she didn't.
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Boogie
Yeah. That thinking somewhere in her scrambling around and that's when she actually she came around the writer to talk and it was that was I mean I remember she was very charismatic, very profound and poignant. And I remember I remember sitting I was I was surprised at how she was able to talk about him and still hold herself together at the same time, you know, because that's that's hard.
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Boogie
I mean, it was still fresh. I mean, there you have that.
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DynoWright
In:
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JB
I'm thinking by.
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Boogie
Maybe seven or 90.
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DynoWright
Yeah, I think it happened. I regret not going. I'm glad you brought this up because I would love to hear what that was like.
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Boogie
It was one point I was looking. It was like it showed. And you see like a like a reddish curtain behind me. Is that the studio is like, wait a minute, is it of the war or Sherman where she wore I now because then I would have been able to dance. I can remember she wore at all those but I do I just remember she just felt regal and it was just like, yeah, it was very calm.
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Boogie
And I remember that surprised and shock feeling of how she was able to still just go on pushing. Just think how they mentioned how she was suing Death Row and get his masters and starting of the foundation. She was working hard. That's a lot of strength. I don't know too many people that could do that.
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DynoWright
Especially that soon after his murder.
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Boogie
Right. Right. In a murder. Is that right? It wasn't a she died of natural causes as he was murdered. It was quite unexpected.
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JB
Yeah.
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DynoWright
Mm. Yeah.
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Boogie
You hear?
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DynoWright
Yeah. I so regret not going.
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JB
And it'll be neat if anybody has archival footage of that at our alma mater, Wright University. I don't know if the Student Entertainment Council keeps any recordings, but that would be an interesting project and recorded that. Yeah, I mean, it would be one of those big hand-held.
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DynoWright
Giant.
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JB
Cameras to put on a VHS tape.
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Boogie
Yeah, You've seen all that? Never. If anybody was recording? I don't think so. No, no, I don't think so. So I don't. I remember if I remember correctly, she didn't want pictures taken either.
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DynoWright
Yeah. Those are the days before cell phones, right? Yeah. Stop it anymore. Which I can't remember.
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Boogie
I was. I wasn't in front.
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JB
In the front room.
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DynoWright
Wow. You were. You were so close.
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Boogie
Because usually I'm like, usually I hang out in the back. Or if she's say to run out and do something, they know I'm in front for this one. Is it? Hold my seat. I will be back.
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JB
ort clip and he mentioned the:
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DynoWright
Concert and all.
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JB
Of the Tupac hologram came out and the crowd just went nuts and they couldn't get enough of the Tupac hologram. I mean, people were talking about that for months and months. Tupac.
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Boogie
He almost broke the Internet the day after it happened. It was like, whoa, everything was like freezing up.
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JB
Yeah.
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Boogie
You couldn't scroll like a you can scroll a second without hearing about.
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DynoWright
Yeah, it's.
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JB
It was crazy looking because like, it was it was so realistic looking to me. When I think of a hologram, I think of like, you know, lights shining down from the sky and you can kind of see like a transparent image or like 3-D image, like a holographic sticker. But like, yeah, this really looked like, yeah, I don't know, it was hard to describe.
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DynoWright
Yeah. And that was 11 years ago. Yeah, that was pretty interesting. Technology Mid Journey was the only a figment of our imaginations at that point, right?
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JB
Yeah, right. With all the events.
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DynoWright
I didn't. It hasn't come around by then. The one thing that I liked, they showed the filmmakers and the interview subjects hugging at the end. They did a nice little supercut of that and near the end of the episode and that was kind of nice. Feel like we're supposed to take away a note of positivity and that was that was nice to have the community on screen.
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JB
Yeah, And Glow was getting very emotional at the end and she's like, I don't like this. I don't like this. Let's stop before I start crying too much.
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DynoWright
Yeah.
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JB
But man, it comes full circle. Remember the beef that Tupac he beat up one of those years, brother? It's like.
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DynoWright
Yeah.
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JB
I mean, and for them to do the story was kind of ironic, but.
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DynoWright
Yeah, time heals all wounds. Yeah, all is forgiven.
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JB
Yeah, but hip hop heads, you guys got to see this if you haven't already. It's very well done. Five episodes. You learn so much about the character of Tupac and Afeni.
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DynoWright
And how influential he was. I mean, his legacy is in hip hop all around thug mansions. Yeah, I didn't know about these thug mansions. Not going to look any research into these thug mansions.
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JB
Yeah, but like Afeni said in her speeches, it's like his spirit lives on, you know, it's kind of like respect the art that he had put out there and live in his spirit.
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Boogie
Yeah, I do. Like how during the end credits as to the lyrics to the song Throw the Feet Out in a blended in the vintage footage of him freestyling. And he just kind of stayed on, stayed on the beat. I'm like, Wow, I was so nice. How did that the piece that I freestyle was I was acapella, but it just blended writing to the beat.
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Boogie
It was a way I was very well done. It was, yeah, I like how he did that with vintage punk.
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DynoWright
Yeah, that was cool.
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JB
MM That was cool. Yeah. His early hip hop had a really strong message about black on black violence and, you know, it's like genocide and very powerful. And he had, like, anecdotes about two different individuals that ended up being in the wrong place at the wrong time. And they, and they do that because of gun violence. And it was the song at the end.
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JB
Like I never knew that he sampled Mister, Mister Broken Wings and that one song. Yeah. What's I forget was that what song. That one was.
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Boogie
Something at the time or something.
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JB
You got it right. Boogie That's the name of the episode until the end of time. So actually cool thing that did Hughes Brothers every episode. This is named after one of the Tupac songs. This one was called Until the End of Time So Many Tears was another episode changes? Yep. But yeah, it's a must see so make sure you catch it.
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Boogie
Yeah. Highly recommend this one. I highly, highly recommend it.
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JB
Bring it home.
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DynoWright
Hip hop movie club is produced by your hhn sees JB Boogie and Dino Wright theme music by Boogie. Well check us out on Facebook and Instagram at Hip Hop Movie Club. Pretty good. Well, the next episode of Hip Hop Movie Club podcast Your H Senses review. Ladies first, The story of women in hip hop drops in two weeks.
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DynoWright
Subscribe now on your favorite podcast app. You won't miss it. Shout out to you listeners. Thanks for listening.
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JB
And remember, don't hate Navigate a G.P.S. promo.
