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Welcome to Hip Hop Movie Club, the show that harmonizes the rhythm of hip hop with the

magic of movies.

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Today we're discussing episode four of the 2019 Wu-Tang Clan documentary of Mics and Men.

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We're three old heads who put their old heads together to vibe on these films for you.

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I'm Dyno Wright, podcaster, filmmaker, longtime hip hop fan and I still have my enhanced

CD version of Wu-Tang forever.

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Nice.

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I'm JB, 80s and 90s nostalgia junkie, longtime hip-hop fan.

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I had never heard of Cilvaringz before watching this episode.

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with Cilvaringz.

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I'm Boogie, a DJ, long time hip hop fan and one of my favorite hip hop albums of all time

is Iron Man by Ghostface Killer.

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I still have that copy from 96 in my CD book, outside right now.

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You

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In this episode, we'll answer the question, did Cash rule everything around them?

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And please hit that subscribe button down below so you won't miss an episode.

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In episode four of Mics and Men, we see the group reflecting on 25 years together in the

hip-hop game, as well as conflicts over finances and family dynamics.

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Here are 5 things you need to know about episode 4 of Of Mics and Men.

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Reflection The crew reflects on 25 years together.

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Number two

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Financial Disputes The profits from the crew's solo albums caused strains in trust among

members as well as the dominance of the Wu-Tang Clan as a collective.

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Once Upon a Time in Shaolin A unique marketing ploy in which RZA enabled Cilvaringz to

produce a single copy of a secret, unreleased album.

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It caused great controversy.

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Number four, life is short.

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appreciating the blessings that life has afforded the Wu-Tang clan.

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Number five, family.

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Through the entire journey, the Wu-Tang clan has been a family and support system for one

another.

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Alright first off, reflection.

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You see the Wu-Tang Clan in the theater there in Staten Island reflecting on 25 years

together.

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They're also talking over a nice family dinner.

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It was an unlikely journey, ups and downs along the way, their families grew, trials and

tribulations, which we'll get to.

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They hit apex as we talked about in last episode.

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were making like in Times Square in 2000, you know, they were the star of the show.

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They had like $50 million of profits coming in around that time, multiple platinum and

gold artists.

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So like it says, unlikely rise to fame and they sustained it.

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I mean, they're touring this year and they are still insanely popular.

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Boogie, you want to talk a little about how they reflected on their unlikely journey?

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Yeah, so the one thing that I definitely enjoyed seeing was the fact that despite

everything, the ups and downs, they were all able to sit down and have a family style

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dinner together.

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It looks like RZA pleased with that as well because the things he mentioned was that the

Wu-Tang Productions, the company that remained with him,

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while everyone else had their solo careers was doing so well.

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And he wanted to make good on, you know, getting everybody kind of caught up, you know,

making sure that everybody was taken care of, talking through some of the things, some of

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the differences that they had throughout the years, different conflicts that they had.

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And it was good to see that, they've a lot together.

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They've known each other pre-Wu-Tang Clan, you know, a lot of them grew up together.

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They were cousins throughout the crew.

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it was just good to see that.

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I know one of the things that one of the quotes that know, RZA said contemplation

reflecting on your past is better than praying.

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And I said, wow, that's I never heard that.

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But when you think about it, it's like, yeah, you know, you see where you're coming from,

you come from, and you're able to make changes throughout your life to move forward.

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So if you're able to do that.

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You can overcome a lot.

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I was good to see that.

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I do like seeing the flashback talking about the logo creation mathematics.

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Man, mathematics knew back then what he knew now.

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Yeah, RZA paid him $400 for the logo.

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I mean, it was a legit sale.

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But man, did that logo take off.

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But yeah, so yeah, like said, it was just good to see that.

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anything to add on the reflection aspect.

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Yeah.

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I was watching this, was thinking, you know, the Wu-Tang Clan is like a super group in

reverse.

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Like most super groups you think of, they were built from other bands, like other bigger

bands, and then they make, some members come and make a new super group.

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But these guys, like, were a group already.

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turned into these huge solo acts and then once in a while they come back together in this

Wu-Tang supergroup and I thought that was kind of funny.

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You don't really see that in other musical groups or bands or things like that.

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So thought that was kind of funny.

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They're definitely different.

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yeah.

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A lot of times with those boy bands, one star shines above the other as a soloist.

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Like Justin Timberlake, right?

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Out of NSYNC, he became the megastar.

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Other guys tried to come out with the solo albums and then like One Direction, right?

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A couple guys had a solo, but there's always one that like takes off, right?

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But yeah, everybody, so many of these guys were like just singular sensations.

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yeah multiple albums they have multiple albums yeah

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that was very unique to the Wu-Tang clan.

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Right.

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But with all the success, turmoil as we talked about as an underlying theme throughout

this series.

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And there's a lot more talk about financial disputes in this one because as those solo

careers take off, it caused some strain amongst the members because again, they want to

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get their albums done.

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They have Wu Tang to uphold as a collective.

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And there's a lot of conflict that happens because of that.

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they mentioned, I don't know, was RZA, I think?

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was like, each artist was ultimately signed away from Wu-Tang production.

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That's $40 million worth of artists.

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That's not really good business practice.

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That put into a dent into the value of the franchise.

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And then more and more turmoil pops up because of that.

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You guys want to discuss a little bit further?

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How about that, boogie?

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ultimately, mean, in the beginning, know, Divine didn't want to let the guys sign away

from the crew.

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as you just mentioned, it is bad for business.

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Like you're devaluing your company, your business, your profits by letting your key

players go off and do their own But RZA

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And I also agree with that.

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He's like, yeah, it's not good for business.

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But on the flip side, you don't want to keep them Wu-Tang Productions if they didn't want

to be held.

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You don't want to keep them against their will.

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So ultimately, he did let them sign off and have their own solo careers outside of Wu-Tang

Productions.

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know, Divine was upset.

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He's like, you know, I'm losing $10 million a year from this.

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Like it's insane.

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but you know, can't do anything about it.

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Capadonna talked about an issue that he ended up having, where he signed an initial

$150,000 publishers check and he was supposed to receive a $50,000 bonus when his album,

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The Pillage, went gold.

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Coincidentally, The Pillage went gold.

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Well,

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According to Capodana, the album went gold in two weeks.

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Divine is saying, no, the album didn't necessarily get certified gold in those two weeks,

but we shipped out the numbers, but it didn't actually sell those yet.

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But he said, no, you know what?

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Because it's into a big dispute.

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He said, I just paid him right away.

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it was that, that killed that issue.

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But he's also saying, hey, you know.

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Cause each one of these guys have their own managers.

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Now I got to split by profits with these new managers.

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Cause they just putting a strain on my pockets.

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Ultimately, start seeing guys, Method Man is like, yeah, know, talking about how everybody

became tired of the business side of things.

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Like, yeah, we still Wu-Tang, we still the crew, we still get along, but the business side

of things, everybody was kind of getting tired of it.

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And even Mook was like, yeah, everything that happened to the crew, that happened to them.

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was because of him.

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Everybody wanted to do their own thing and RZA had that plan where he wanted everybody to

kind of be aligned to put their albums out but now everybody's ready to put out another

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album and another album and you got people that haven't even put one out yet.

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a lot of animosity created.

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At that point to answer our question, cash did rule everything around them.

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Some people say money is the root of all evil.

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without those financial concerns, it wouldn't probably have the strife, right?

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Because you got to get paid, you got to feed your family.

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How does it all get divided evenly?

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A lot of chaos ensued there.

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We always see Divine on a yacht, every single scene.

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He's always on his yacht.

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We didn't really talk about that, right?

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He's sailing the world.

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After he and Ghostface had it out, he bounced.

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But he also invested in real estate.

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Remember he said he was buying properties every year and he wanted to get the guys in on

that and not everybody followed suit because they could own blocks and blocks within

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Staten Island if he would which would have been worth mega bucks these days.

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So he was smart.

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He was smart with his money.

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Yeah, he did well.

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He did well.

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Like he invested that money.

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He definitely did well.

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mean, yeah, he losing.

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You're not getting the 10 million here and there, but you're not you're not poor by any by

any means.

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Yep.

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And then another source of controversy, a big source was the Once Upon a Time in Shaolin

album, which was a unique marketing ploy, which RZA worked with this guy, Cilvaringz, who

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popped on the scene when they were doing like a European leg of a tour or like, you know,

kind of like Wu Tang Europe.

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And they ended up producing this single copy of a secret unreleased album that they just

kind of like put in a vault.

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and then eventually auctioned off.

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But there was controversy behind it because the crew, a lot of them didn't really

understand what was going on.

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agreed to be recorded for certain little snippets or outtakes as soloists, but they didn't

realize that it was going to be produced for that reason.

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So that became a kind of lightning rod of controversy.

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DynoWright you want to kind of speak a little bit about that aspect?

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Sure.

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It was an odd kind of situation that there wasn't a lot of communication about what was

happening and you know what happens with a lack of communication.

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And it really came to head here and

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This so-called Pharma bro, Martin Shkreli swoops in and wins the auction to buy the album

for...

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was it million?

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Two million?

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Two million.

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Karma gets him in the end because he goes to jail for securities fraud.

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Not because of anything for the album, but people were happy to see him get his just

desserts.

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think there was a lot of schadenfreude happening there.

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But actually the album itself but no one's heard of it than other than a few people.

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But I think it encapsulates the whole Wu-Tang story in itself.

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Some of it's good, some of it's bad.

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It's kind of a mixed bag

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And Cilvaringz, we're not quite sure, RZA's boy, he's affiliate number one out of like a

zillion affiliates of Wu-Tang clan.

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So yeah, wonder what Cilvaringz’s doing now.

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Hmm

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He toured the pyramids with him in Egypt.

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He took a liking to him and he gave him that type of authority.

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I think it's interesting marketing idea if it's done the right way, right?

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It would be cool if all these artists had something like that.

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That would be kind of, it's like a treasure, but if it's done and crafted the right way

with everybody's buy-in.

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and you have that one copy, that's pretty incredible.

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Like let's say you're a fan of Metallica or something like that, and then they have this

one copy of this unreleased album, and it's just like done with the same type of rigor and

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involvement.

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And it's like, wow, I have this gem, right?

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Yeah, I'm surprised the other...

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Exactly, just an example.

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I don't know why I thought of it.

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your drums?

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yeah, like artists like that, like your favorite artist.

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Man, if you're wealthy, you can bid on that.

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But this was so odd.

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It was almost like worst case scenario with this shady character winning it.

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He was the CEO of Turing, like you said, Pharma Bro.

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But he was so greedy.

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He raised the price of this HIV medication, which was really needed by a lot of folks from

like $13.50 to like $750 a pill.

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So like he was public enemy number one in the media.

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followed by the news.

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But now his name is associated with the protest.

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because he got that record.

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So kind of stained their name a little bit, but on the other hand, some people say, you

know, there's no such thing as bad publicity.

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like the fact that their name got out there after, you know, in the media every day about

this album, you know, that kind of helped a little bit as well.

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again, yeah, exactly.

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Yeah, ended up, I think the court ended up, they ended up confiscating that album.

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Yeah.

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it right now?

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I don't know.

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Is it owned by the state?

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Like who owns it?

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I lost track of it.

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I was keeping up with it for a while.

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I'm like, yeah, I lost track of it.

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But yeah, that whole situation was just crazy.

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like, think like, like RZA, know, Cilvaringz you know, he took a liking to him because he

seemed like he was hungry.

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And he was interested in how, you know, RZA's production skills, because RZA, top-notch

producer, like probably one of the best.

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Yeah, he tried to imitate RZA and according to some members, the album is trash.

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To quote ghost face album is trash.

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It's not a Wu-Tang album.

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But even the way it went about it, you know, he's contacting the members and he's asking

them to, you know, you can get some rhymes from them and they're basically out of good

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faith because he's

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probably name dropping to RZA or, know, know, hey, you know, RZA is, you know, mentioned,

you know, asking them if we can get these together.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, no problem.

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Because most MCs, most writers, write, they have books and books upon stuff, know, they

probably say, I can give you something real quick.

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Hey, let me give you something real quick.

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And, for him to go and record the album and just kind of basically, like basically he

Franken

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produced an album.

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But, kind of get where he was coming from with the exclusivity of the album, comparing it

to like, an artist like, Michelangelo or Rembrandt or something with a painting or

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something from one of those guys.

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said, you know, why can't RZA do the same thing?

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and have like an exclusive.

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So I get where his head was at in that aspect, but to go and do it the way he did it

without letting the guys know was very shady.

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And I can understand them being upset.

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mean, this guy is very lucky that things didn't escalate further than them just being

upset, you know, because let's be real, you're from the hood, you got people that you're

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still associated with.

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You might not be about that anymore because you're still doing stuff legitimately, people

in the neighborhood might go, you dissed my boy.

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You know, you played my boy out.

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You got him for some money.

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Like, you know, things like that can happen.

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But yeah, that whole scenario with like the Daraprim is just, you know, raising the price

like that was just he just gouged unnecessarily.

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Like these are some of the most vulnerable people in our population without that,

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Who knows what could happen to them besides death?

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And like, it's crazy like to do that.

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He deserves every bit of karma that he gets.

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For the record, a group that sells NFTs bought the record and so they're the legal holder

at the moment.

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Okay.

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So they took it and resold it.

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Nice.

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So they have this arrangement where you can buy for a dollar an NFT of this non-fungible

token on this album, but it pushes the release date back like 88 seconds or something.

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It's like that's this thing where you pay for it, but then it doesn't get out into the

public until later.

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But you get a five minute sample of it.

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Is that all you got for your money?

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it's funny because as we're talking about other groups maybe trying to emulate that, was

thinking it has to be a digital copy these days because not a lot of people have the

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players to play like a DVD or a CD.

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I you got it.

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But I mean, it's like a fossil artifact these days when you see some of those.

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But how do you keep a digital thing hidden?

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interesting that an NFT company bought that and they're trying to somehow digitize a stake

in it or something like that.

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Yeah, they monetize stakes in it.

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Yeah.

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Hmm.

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Nice

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Well at least Public Enemy Number One doesn't have it anymore.

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Yeah, he does have like a physical, he does have the music.

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Last year he was live streaming it on X against the wishes of the owner, the current

owner.

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And so there was a court order to stop that.

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Kind of a mess.

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I Onto the fourth takeaway.

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Life is short.

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We see a theme where RZA's philosophy, you impacts the rest of the Wu-Tang Clan and

talking about like appreciating the blessings.

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I like the one quote where they said like when you're 85, that's a short 85 no matter what

you say like that's a short timeframe.

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So kind of enjoy life.

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Yeah, so I like that piece.

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Anything more about, you know, life is short.

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That was like a theme they mentioned a couple of times.

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Yeah, I mean, they just talked a lot about economic conditions and some of the racial

tensions that kind of just made them want more from life.

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And you think about 25 years in one group, being affiliated with a group is, it's a long

time in a group, but 25 years goes by really, really quickly.

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I did like one part about, you know, show U- God reflecting.

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He's reflecting on time and talking about how precious time is.

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And he's actually sitting down in the studio.

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He's reading, reading excerpts from his book.

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That was pretty cool to see like in.

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I always like U-God because he kind of played the background a lot, but.

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I was glad to see that they gave him lot of screen time in this because he had a lot to

say and it was just good to see that he was able to talk about some of background and

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things that have affected him throughout life.

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same with Capadonna and doing the same, just being able to reflect.

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Because Capadonna, remember the first time he popped up on the scene, was like, whoa,

where did that guy come from?

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Like, wait a minute, like, because he's a lyrical beast.

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And then he just was like on everything.

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After a while, he just came.

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you know, watching the doc, RZA he came from jail and he was hungry and they just threw

him right in the mix.

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I gave him a check, like, here you go, get in there.

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seeing him reflect as well, you know.

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: 00:19:53

talking about life and, you know, it's a good thing.

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: 00:19:56

It kind of puts things in perspective, like maybe people were shortchanged here and there,

but where they came from, where they are now, and what they've been afforded over the

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years through hip hop and through this group, it's been beyond expectations.

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: 00:20:12

And we've learned that Mastakilla is related to Marvin Gaye.

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: 00:20:17

That should be public knowledge.

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: 00:20:20

And a direct descendant of Nat Turner.

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: 00:20:22

My goodness.

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: 00:20:23

What a Venn diagram this is.

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: 00:20:24

Yeah.

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: 00:20:25

Yeah, that's a perfect segue to the final takeaway, which was family.

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: 00:20:28

Like throughout the entire journey, they remained a family, whether some of them were

blood related, several were not, but it was like their support system for each other.

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: 00:20:38

And they've been through so much together with facing abhorrent racism, struggles trying

to break into the industry, being a unique crew with such large members, the passing of

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: 00:20:48

ODB.

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: 00:20:49

fact that they're now having that dinner and reflecting, it's that strength in the unity

of family.

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: 00:20:55

So it's just remarkable to see when you have that kind of bond, it's stronger than all the

strife.

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: 00:21:01

It's kind of like they can overcome because they have that support system, which is, it's

just truly wonderful to see.

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: 00:21:08

Yeah.

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: 00:21:09

Yeah, I mean, mentioned, know, Divine and RZA are brothers.

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: 00:21:15

GZA is their cousin.

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: 00:21:17

know, ODB is their cousin.

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: 00:21:19

ODB and GZA are cousins.

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: 00:21:20

Like, wow, it's like, that's kind of crazy.

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: 00:21:22

You know, Divine was best friends with Raekwon growing up.

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: 00:21:27

You know, it was kind of sad, that he, see that it hurt him when he was talking about it,

though.

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: 00:21:34

was that after Raekwon released his solo album, Only Built 4 Cuban Linx, him and Divine

lost communication and they weren't as close and tight-knit as they used to be.

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: 00:21:44

maybe somewhere down the line they can reconcile.

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: 00:21:46

And I love like, Masta Killa was sitting with his father and his father was dropping

some knowledge.

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: 00:21:51

He would drop some jewels, like play the hand that's been dealt to you.

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: 00:21:57

as long as you hold the cards and then gain, you still have a chance to win.

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: 00:22:02

was nice.

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: 00:22:03

Don't give up, don't put the cards down.

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: 00:22:05

You still got cards, you still got a shot at it.

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: 00:22:08

And I you see where Masta Killa got that from his dad and it's like, yeah, you keep

pushing.

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: 00:22:14

You keep pushing.

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: 00:22:15

Even Divine talking about his mother.

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: 00:22:19

RZA's mom said, you know, boy, can take life two ways.

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: 00:22:23

You can take it the smart way or you can take it the wise way.

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: 00:22:26

And so we know that a smart man learns from his own mistakes, but a wise man learns from

other people's mistakes.

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: 00:22:34

So be wise.

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: 00:22:36

I was like, yeah.

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: 00:22:40

Yeah.

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: 00:22:41

I was like, wow.

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: 00:22:43

It was profound.

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: 00:22:44

The family aspect is endearing to me.

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: 00:22:46

It's because it grew organically.

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: 00:22:49

Like they started out as friends and family members first and they like that was the basis

of it.

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: 00:22:53

It wasn't like they were formed by a producer.

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: 00:22:57

It was the anti producer.

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: 00:22:59

Like we're doing it our way.

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: 00:23:01

We're going to we mentioned DIY early on and they did their way and they to this day they

stand out because of that.

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: 00:23:10

Yup.

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: 00:23:10

Yup.

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: 00:23:11

Can't fake.

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: 00:23:12

You can't fake with it.

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: 00:23:13

You can't fake what they had.

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: 00:23:14

The chemistry.

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: 00:23:15

can't fake it.

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: 00:23:16

Right.

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: 00:23:17

So just like any family, have their quarrels, big fights, tension, but through it all,

blood is thicker than water.

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: 00:23:25

So there they are.

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: 00:23:27

again, they're touring this year and continue to celebrate their greatness.

347

: 00:23:32

Yeah.

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: 00:23:32

It's funny that, you know, I was listening to Hot 97.

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: 00:23:35

Coincidentally, think it was like last week.

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: 00:23:37

I think it was last week and they were talking about, you know, Wu-Tang clan and they were

saying how they like, you know, this isn't it.

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: 00:23:45

They're not.

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: 00:23:46

This isn't it.

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: 00:23:47

You know, they're still young, you know, and they were throwing out the

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: 00:23:50

all of these rock bands that are much older than these guys, 20, 30 years older, and

they're still going on tour.

355

: 00:23:57

At some point, some guys said, oh yeah, this is my final performance.

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: 00:24:01

And then 10 years down the line, 15 years down the they get the itch again and they get

back in them, oh, for one night only.

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: 00:24:10

It's like, yeah, they're not done.

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: 00:24:11

They're not done.

359

: 00:24:12

They're not done.

360

: 00:24:13

There's no way they're going to be done after this.

361

: 00:24:14

They're going to probably sit around.

362

: 00:24:17

and like maybe next year they're come out with another album or know five or ten years

from now they're gonna go on another tour because they're gonna get lonely and want to go

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: 00:24:23

perform again but it was kind of funny i was laughing i was like yeah please hope that

that's the case please let that be the case let's get another Wu-Tang album not Cilva

364

: 00:24:34

ringz produced but get an authentic RZA album

365

: 00:24:38

I saw Kiss in 2000 on their Farewell tour and I've seen them like twice after that.

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: 00:24:44

25 years ago.

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: 00:24:46

Yeah.

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: 00:24:46

I've seen a lot of artists that say farewell.

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: 00:24:48

Like I swear Elton John Farewell tour.

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: 00:24:50

heard so many times and then he keeps popping back up.

371

: 00:24:53

Yep.

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: 00:24:53

Farewell for now.

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: 00:24:54

For now.

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: 00:24:55

Yeah,

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: 00:24:55

it is the real final tour for real, we got so much out of them.

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: 00:25:00

We got a lot of great music from them and entertainment for sure.

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: 00:25:04

That's true.

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: 00:25:12

Hip Hop Movie Club is produced by your HHMC's JB, Boogie and Dyno Wright.

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: 00:25:16

Theme music by Boogie.

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: 00:25:18

Join us on April 24th at the Frank Banko Alehouse Cinemas in Steelstacks, Bethlehem, PA

for a screening of Hustle and Flow in 4K starring Terrence Howard and Ludacris Tickets at

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: 00:25:29

Steelstacks.org.

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: 00:25:33

As always, check out our full live event schedule on our website, hiphopmovieclub.com.

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: 00:25:38

Thanks for listening to the Hip Hop Movie Club podcast.

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: 00:25:41

If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend.

385

: 00:25:43

It's a real power up for us.

386

: 00:25:46

And remember, don't hate, dominate.

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: 00:25:51

Dominate Wu-Tang Wu-Tang

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: 00:25:53

Hahaha!

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: 00:25:58

And they definitely dominated for a while too.

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: 00:26:00

They were everywhere.

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: 00:26:01

They still are.

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: 00:26:02

Mm-hmm.

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: 00:26:03

That's right.